On Race and Nationality

This tweet is worth discussing:

What this shows is how different the concept of race and nationality is viewed by Brits compared to much of the rest of the world, particularly eastern Europe. To a Romanian, a British person is not someone who merely holds a British passport but who has what they consider British ethnicity, i.e. they’re white. When I lived in Sakhalin, the idea that third-generation ethnic Koreans were Russian was preposterous, even if they’d never been to Korea, were born in Russia, and held Russian passports. Much of the world views people by race rather than nationality, and this is what this Romanian is doing: they can’t understand how an ethnic Indian can possibly be British. It also seems in this particular case they don’t understand how Brits can view white European people as much different from them, i.e. as foreigners.

There is much to admire about the British view of race and nationality, but we shouldn’t think it is universal. More worryingly, if politicians and their cheerleaders continue to shove us down the road of identity politics, we’re going to become a lot more like those places in which one’s ethnicity is more important than one’s nationality. I don’t think that will be good for anyone.

Share

22 thoughts on “On Race and Nationality

  1. What about Leo Varadker celebrating the recent Irish abortion victory “the day we came of age as a country, the day we took our place among the nations of the world”

    Excuse me Leo, who do you mean by we, if its the Irish then you will find that they were already in the top ten developed nations on any social measure, or is it his Indian heritage seaking and a comparison to India where their brides are treated like shit and they as a nation are about 100 times lesser on any social development index?

    Who are you talking about Mr Prime Minister?

  2. Of course only white ethnic Britons can be British. Concept of nationality is entirely absurd. Country or State are from the beginning certain ethnic group safe zone. This piece of land is ours. Citizenship is only proof that you belong to the certain ethnic group. When 18 years old border guard stay on the post 3 AM in the rainstorm , he can`t distinguish native Briton from very good English speaking white Russian or German. For that we need citizenship and also proof of that, called passport.

    That is the difference between State and random place full of people. Without ethnicity whole concept of State and citizenship becomes pointless and there is no difference anymore between being British or dumpinggroundian or mostdirtypublictoilettian or whatever place you like.

  3. I encountered this issue when I lived in Poland and Russia for 11 and 7 years respectively. No one believed me when I told them being British was a Club. Sign up to the rules, agree to play (and/or cheer) for the team and you’re in. It’s not about race, blood and soil as it is for less advanced nations. But it damn well is about loyalty.

  4. My youngest son worked with a lot of Nigerians in Aberdeen and they told him that they took high doses of vitamin d, due to the lack of sunshine, my red haired grandaughter has no such problem, Ive met quite a few white australians and some of them had appaling skin so there must be something in this race thing, im to old to care about such things but i find it interesting when people say where all the same… and am reminded of Bernard Manning when he said a dog born in a stable is not a horse!

  5. This pushing of “anyone can be British” may well be the reason for the increasing use of English identity to differentiate native people from newcomers, English may be a nationality but its also an ethnicity and for immigrants or their children to claim to be English when they are plainly not is something that cannot be wished away by the open borders lot.

  6. @Tim

    I seem to remember that in the part of the UK around Belfast it used to be (like yesterday) rather important which church you identified with. Same thing used to be important in Paris around 1572. A rational response to conditions on the ground, I imagine. Rather less so if your country has not been invaded since 1066. But I hear that too is changing.

  7. As I read this piece an advert for ‘Mature Russian Ladies online’ scrolled across the bottom of my screen, featuring someone looking rather nice and rather Asian. I suppose most of Russia by land area is in Asia though – the only continent bigger than the Moon. Not a lot of people know that.

  8. Yes, does seem Tim writing from the perspective of someone hasn’t spent much time in British cities, of late. The idea we’re all British together is fading & on the way to being gone. Increasingly and particularly officially, there’s all sorts of British. One’s likely to feel closer to an immigrant Pole with his British citizenship still wet on his passport than a third generation Pakistani tribesman, just happens to have been born in Bradford.

  9. Modern Russian usage distinguishes between russkiy, ethnically Russian, and rossiyskiy, Russian in a more general sense, such as a Russian national. It’s roughly similar to the English vs. British dichotomy. The distinction is confused and confusing sometimes, and does not translate easily into English and other European languages. Among the Russians, the better educated and the more aware of real-world complexities are also the more likely to distinguish between ethnicity and nationality. As an example, Viktor Tsoi is perceived by many Russians both as an ethnic Korean (although his mother was actually an ethnic Russian) and a Russian icon of a sort.

    Sakhalin is an outlier not only geographically but also historically. South Sakhalin was a Japanese settlement from 1905 to 1945, known as Karafuto. Most of the Sakhalin Koreans were brought in by the Japanese in the 1930s and the 1940s. Almost all the Sakhalin Russians are descendants of post-1945 transplants from the mainland. So we’re dealing with two recent settler/immigrant groups from very different backgrounds. The Wiki entry on Sakhalin Koreans is a decent primer on the Sakhalin Koreans (not to be confused with the continental Russian Koreans).

  10. Almost all the Sakhalin Russians are descendants of post-1945 transplants from the mainland

    Indeed, and the origins of the Sakhalin Koreans and their place in society is something I’ll write about in my next book.

    not to be confused with the continental Russian Koreans

    I’ve been romantically involved with both types. 🙂

  11. Whilst there are certainly many living in Britain that are not British, and they do present problems, their non-Britishness is due to their choice to flout the rules and cheer for, even play for, opposing teams.
    I’m sure their choice comes from their views on race and culture, but the truth remains that they have rejected Britain, Britain has not rejected them.
    Perhaps it is time for Britain to consider rejecting those who reject Britain.

  12. “Of course only white ethnic Britons can be British. Concept of nationality is entirely absurd. Country or State are from the beginning certain ethnic group safe zone. This piece of land is ours. Citizenship is only proof that you belong to the certain ethnic group.”

    Parklife.

  13. “”..Parklife…””

    Eastern European life. Racism, Nazism and normality in general. If you don,t like, feel free to use drugs, make homosexual sex and believe holocaust.

    You die out, not me.

  14. I’ve been romantically involved with both types. 🙂

    Please, please, say it was simultaneously

  15. Odd. I once spoke with a Romanian woman who thought Britain was weak because we let any trash in and then paid them handsomely to not work and carry on causing trouble.

    She was not wrong.

  16. Anyone living in Europe who thinks ethnicity and nationality are tightly linked ought to invest in a DNA test that shows their heritage. They might be in for a few surprises.

    British nationality is, as other commentators have suggested, far more about common values and acceptance of a culture. Although that statement may be increasingly inaccurate over recent history.

  17. British nationality is, as other commentators have suggested, far more about common values and acceptance of a culture.

    Which has been the case since when? 1950? Sure, some noticeably different people have been accepted as British since the dawn of time, but by the million? That’s a recent thing, and it’s looking increasing artificial. I can’t see it lasting.

  18. The idea we’re all British together is fading & on the way to being gone.

    Indeed, and what comes next?

  19. Next is economic collapse, society collapse and civil war.

    And this is how it happens.

    ‘YOU ARE COWARDS’ Female boss slams ‘white middle-class men’ who fled as 6ft attacker kicked and threatened her on tube in London
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6465766/female-boss-slams-white-middle-class-men-who-fled-as-6ft-attacker-kicked-and-threatened-her-on-tube-in-london/

    From comment section

    “”…..I love this story! Have you read this woman’s Tweets? So vile, so anti-male, anti-West, anti-white, anti-Christian values… and when she herself falls victim to one of these “6 foot males” (wink-wink) she forgives him (probably a sexual emergency of some sort) and blames the very white males she has spent so long and hard alienating, because they didn’t jump to her rescue!

    So we are misogynist chauvinistic sexual predators and potential rapists who are not needed by modern women !! …………….unless you need someone to protect you !!

    I wouldn’t risk anything, not even a little bit, to save Misandrist Fashion CEO here

    She almost certainly voted to let the “Asian” man into the country.
    We leave you entitled women to the amazing immigrants. They will treat you right..

    The ones a man in 2018 should protect remain your circle of family, friends, children and the handicapped…..””

    This of course is not only UK problem but entire western society hates each other. Everybody else know it and using the opportunity to come and do what they want.

  20. “Anyone living in Europe who thinks ethnicity and nationality are tightly linked ought to invest in a DNA test that shows their heritage.”
    Cuz’s wife did exactly that for cuz. Brithday present for cuz as they’re both into genealogy. 100% Anglo-Sax. Not surprising. Both grandfather’s & grandmother’s sides. Came to London from E. Anglia Great grandfather was in the horse trade, grazing the animals where the Beckton Alp now looms. Hence our boast of being the only London family who are mountain people.
    My father’s father’s side all come from a tiny village in Cheshire. The name’s the name of the village. There’s under 300 people in the UK with the name, 90% within 50 miles of the village. Grandmother, from that side possibly has some Jock in her.
    Dare say most English people’s backgrounds look something like that. Three generations back, most people were rural or provincial town/city. Travel was relatively expensive so they didn’t do much. Even where you had immigration, it was mostly to the big cities & immigrants tend to marry amongst their own. At least for the first generation.

Comments are closed.