The People’s F*ckup

On the subject of Brexit this is good, especially:

Meanwhile our elected representatives were doing no better, having been so softened by years of out sourcing decisions to the EU or arms reach quango’s that they had no vision nor skill of state craft to call upon, knowing only how to tinker with trivia whilst hoping no one rocked the boat they flailed around hoping that sound bites would once more get them through the day. These people we have for years elected to represent us, despite our wide-spread belief that they were dishonest, dishonourable and incompetent are revealed to be exactly as we judged them when we returned them to power time and again.

Read the whole thing.

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10 thoughts on “The People’s F*ckup

  1. While the failings of the political class are manifest and certainly haven’t made Brexit any easier or better managed, I think the real reason its such a cluster f*ck is that what we are seeing is not a clash of political ideology, where each side is represented by a faction within the political class, and thus a political debate can occur, and a compromise be reached, what Brexit represents is a clash between the voters and the political class. The voters have voted for something the political class don’t collectively want to deliver.

    Its no good saying that ‘We should have had a national debate’ after the Brexit vote to determine our national course of action, because the only mechanism for such a debate is politics, and the 52% were studiously unrepresented within politics, or certainly within the bits of politics with any power. UKIP got 4m votes in 2010 and nothing more than one former Tory MP who jumped ship to join them. The mainstream parties totally ignored the views of the electorate on Europe to the extent they were completely disenfranchised on the subject. And then foolishly allowed the disenfranchised a vote on the very issue that was being suppressed.

    And the result is what we see – a clash of the voters vs the politicians. I’m not sure what will happen if the politicians win – they may think they’ve put the genie back in the bottle but I think they’re kidding themselves – in the long run the voters will have their revenge. It may come in a completely different area of politics to Europe, but I have a feeling that the voters will pull the house down on the current political class eventually, maybe to the voters own detriment. I can see a mass vote for a Corbyn type government, not because they want socialism (they’ll certainly be sorry when they get it) but because they have got to a point where they are so fed up with the rotten political class they just want the whole lot swept away, and don’t care what comes after.

  2. Quotes from the article

    “When the legislation for the referendum was going through no one complained about it being a simple majority. No one complained when the government repeatedly said the result of the referendum would be implemented.”

    “I know a lot of people will say this was the job of “Leave”, but “Leave” weren’t and aren’t in power, “Leave” didn’t have access to the full machinery of state and the resources of the civil service to even start sketching a plan.”
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    No-one in Government had expected a Leave vote to be the result, and no provisions had been put in place to accommodate the decision to leave the EU made by the electorate.

    Two boxes to chose between, leave or remain. No soft or hard option there. We were told what leave meant – the sky would fall, we would be eating grass because the economy would fail, we would have the worst depression in recorded history (I exaggerate, but you get the drift) – yet , and yet, 17.4 million people voted in the referendum to leave. To become a sovereign nation again, and to have total control over our own Country.

    Our politicians and Civil Servants seem to be ignoring that decision.

    Edited to add agreement to Jim’s post.

    Take away the point of voting, what other options do we have?

  3. Indeed, I agree with Jim: this is a fight between the political classes and everyone else.

  4. I wish you hadn’t linked that out-and-out drivel for me to waste my time reading. I trusted you, Tim. You’ve let me down. Compromise is the strategy that made Neville Chamberlain famous.

  5. Agreed the disagreement is between the people and the politicians.
    The leave vision was indeed set out, far more clearly than any previous separatist movement.
    We make our own laws.
    We are judged by our own courts.
    We cease paying tribute.
    We decide who may or may not come to live with us.
    We hence open up the possibility of ending restrictive regulations designed to favour large EU businesses at everyone else’s expense.
    We also open up the possibility of improving trading opportunities with the faster growing parts of the world.
    All of this was put forward during the referendum, approvingly by leave, disparaglngly by remain.
    That those who enforced the regulations, those who got to dine out on public money, those with wIth EU pensions, those in receipt of EU grants, those for whom the regulations were made are having a continuous fit is hardly surprising.
    Had the government wanted to smooth the path it could simply have offered to replace EU grants with UK ones, and still have saved half the tribute. It could have promised that UK regulations would no longer favour large EU companies.
    But as stated we have a political class accustomed to following instructions.

  6. When I was on an Army education course in the mid ’80s our lecturer made the point that Britain has avoided revolution by our ruling classes/elites/establishment listening to the people and responding, just enough to avoid revolution and stay in power.

    Once we joined the EU a lot of that flexibility was taken away and politician’s ability to respond to popular anger was restricted – immigration, tampon tax, VAT on energy being the most recent and obvious examples, but there have been many others. In the first case they responded by calling anyone who dissented bigots and racists and in the others they obfuscated about the real reasons so as not give succour to anti EU supporters.

    Their problem was that the British people aren’t as stupid as they think and had noticed and resentment in them and the EU started to build. The Establishment responded by referring to anyone who was anti EU as swivelled eyed loons, little Englander’s or just plain right wing fascist.

    They were then surprised when 17m+ people said “fuck you” and voted to leave. The only way they could rationlise it was to start calling Leavers thick, racist, bigots. They seem to think that those 17m people were brainwashed during the campaign rather than forming their opinions over a number of years.

    And they still don’t get it. They stand in Parliament and talk about how we should do everything we can to ensure Brexit in name only, dressed up us a customs union and single market in goods only whilst hiding behind the NI border issue. (Which raises another point, I don’t remember being told that the Good Friday agreement meant we could never leave the EU.)

    I wonder if that that Major is still around, I’d love to find out what he thinks of the current Establishments efforts to avoid a revolution.

  7. I think this has been discussed here before. To wit: how much does a populace deserve it’s current state? I’m of two minds: sometimes I think even North Koreans are to blame for putting up with their leaders, as a critical mass of pushback is all that’s needed to change them. But the human ability to “keep on keepin on” and the universal love of one’s continued existence – at the expense of nearly everything else – is too powerful to brush off. Not to mention our natural gravitation to hierarchy.

    But in a modern western nation with access to information heretofore unimaginable? Not so sure.

  8. I think my personal guilt for the politicians we have is about as much as my personal guilty for slavery, the crusades or post-WWII brutality. i.e. None.

    I always vote, I mostly vote against the incumbent party, I write to my MP, I try to inform myself about stuff and I try to argue politely with people who disagree with me about stuff. And God knows Brexit’s given plenty of practice at that last.

    Where’s my culpability? Am I supposed instead to be lying on a rooftop above Whitehall with a rifle and a telescopic sight? Or rioting? It doesn’t seem to me that the author of that article (entertaining as it is, thanks for the link) is suggesting much more than a bit of self-flagellation and ‘we’re all sinners’ stuff.

  9. Tony Abbott: How to save Brexit
    Britain has nothing to fear from no deal

    ..Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?..

    Good article – agree except:

    Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/tony-abbott-how-to-save-brexit/

    Blow the bloody doors off and Leave. Once we’re out, then strike a deal.

  10. I discussed this with a friend via e-mail about 12 years ago and part of my argument was as follows:

    There is an interesting book called the War of the Flea by Robert Taber (https://wrathoftheawakenedsaxon.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/the-war-of-the-flea.pdf) about revolutionary guerrilla warfare. It was published a while ago in the 1960s and the CIA bought up the entire first printing – not because it was so dangerous that the Public couldn’t be allowed access to it but it was so good it was issued as a standard text to their operatives.

    One of the questions he asked was “Why do people, when the risks and dangers are so great, both to themselves and their families, resort to armed revolution?” His answer was quite simple – they cannot get any redress to their grievances either through the ballot box or through the Courts. Think of such topics as the Lisbon treaty, law and order, taxation, immigration, loss of liberties, BINO (Brexit in name only) etc. etc. Any redress through the ballot box? Nope. All political parties are singing from the same hymn sheet and Europe is gaining greater and greater (unelected and unaccountable) powers. Any chance of the Law Courts siding with the people of the country and reversing the Governments policies? Again, not a chance. Rather they uphold stupid and malicious legislation. And any situation where it costs you more to obey the law than to disregard it is a dangerous situation …

    Does that seem an accurate picture of Britain, right now? If the grudging answer is yes, then the inevitable conclusion is that there will be a revolution, sooner or later. And when it happens it will be something to see from afar.

    That’s why I emigrated to New Zealand in 2009 and watching things from afar, I am glad I did. I genuinely think that if the politicians do screw the pooch on BINO, then it may well be the spark into the powder keg.

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