Praying for War

Via Bardon in the comments, I find this article by a Turkish writer to be a good example of what happens when people start to believe their own bullshit.

Under the heading “Turkey’s last warning to the West before it’s too late” we get this:

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said on Thursday that the new ban on headscarves in the workplace by the European Court of Justice (ECJ) would commence a struggle between the cross and the crescent.

Also speaking on Thursday, Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu predicted that holy wars would soon begin in Europe.

Employers are now entitled to ban their staff from wearing visible religious symbols. You may say that it is not just for Muslims, but it is certainly intolerable for them. It is a direct attack on Muslim women wearing hijabs at work.

Can someone show me the difference between the ECJ’s ban on headscarves and new U.S. President Donald Trump’s travel ban, please?

President Erdoğan is totally right to compare the situation to a struggle between the cross and the crescent. And so is Minister Çavuşoğlu arguing that holy wars will soon begin in Europe. The refusal by the West to accept the equality of Muslims and Muslim nations is the sign of a clash of civilizations.

If you have decided to clench your fists, you are getting ready for a fight; if you hit, you will be hit back.

President Erdoğan and other government officials are raising their voices since Western governments have aggrieved Turks and Muslims.

Turks are warning one last time. They are asking: “Are you aware that you are playing with fire? What on earth is going on? Are you insane?” The rest is up to the Western governments.

To summarise: Western governments must do as us Turks and Muslims want or we will get violent and a bloody, religious war will ensue. But this is just a warning, not a threat. Uh-huh.

Here’s something for the author to consider: if things keep going the way they are, it may not be long before it is those very politicians to whom her countrymen are issuing “warnings” that are all that stand between Muslims and the general population in the war they appear to crave. I wonder how long she and her ilk expects to last should such a war begin and those politicians are out of the picture? Personally, I’d give her a matter of hours.

I might have said this before, but I think Muslims are making an enormous mistake, one that our current crop of leaders are facilitating and for which they will bear an enormous responsibility in future, in believing that the entire Western population has been cowed. Given the behaviour of the government in each country and a good chunk of their citizens I can see why they may think this, but I nevertheless believe it is a rather dangerous assumption to make. They may ought to read some history books and brush up on the fanatical violence we were willing to inflict on each other just a short time ago, and the fact that when push came to shove the Americans were prepared to obliterate two Japanese cities and sleep well that night. Much is made these days about how civilised we all are and how the EU is a guarantor of peace, and I daresay some people believe it. But I don’t see sixty or seventy years as being particularly long in a historical context, and certainly not long enough to have completely pacified an entire continent. Yugoslavia used to be a holiday destination for Brits wanting a beach and sunshine; a few years later we had the Siege of Sarajevo and Srebrenica.

I’m of the opinion that Europe and America still contain enough people who are, deep down, as fanatically violent as their forebears and this is kept in check only by a complex political and economic system which has been arrived at precisely to avoid any more bloodshed. However, two generations have now passed and people have gotten complacent, thinking this happy state of affairs is destined to be permanent, as if it were some sort of historical inevitability. What we are now seeing is outsiders kicking at the pillars of that political system and being encouraged to do so by hubristic insiders who don’t understand quite how delicate it is and what those pillars are made of. When those pillars have fallen in the past they did so rather unexpectedly, often at a time when people thought that peaceful times were here to stay. What were people saying about “the war to end all wars”? Didn’t quite work out like that, did it?

I’ve read about The Bloody Angle, Chancellorsville, Verdun, The Somme, Stalingrad, and Dresden. Not much love lost there, and everyone looked vaguely alike. I’ve also read about Auschwitz and the Gulags, and the Confederate POW camp at Andersonville: again, this was done by one set of people to another who spoke the same language, ate the same food, and listened to the same music. I’ve read about the Provisional IRA and their policy of kneecappings, and accounts of what happened when Russia’s OMON went into Grozny after artillery flattened it. None of what took place needed a translator. I’ve read about what the British, French, Belgians, Portuguese, Spanish, and Americans were prepared to do to people who were brown or yellow and didn’t sound much like them, and it is grisly stuff. When it comes to barbaric savagery, us Westerners have a pretty impressive record and much of it is within living memory.

But hey, perhaps the West has gone soft. Perhaps the current crop of politicians really are representative of their populations and everyone will sit idly by and do nothing as strange foreigners turn up in large numbers and unleash a holy war over issues such as wearing the hijab. All I’m saying is that are running one hell of a fucking risk. Perhaps they ought to tone down the “warnings” and think this through a bit.

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10 thoughts on “Praying for War

  1. Very well put.
    My wife has been saying similar things for some time. I had been more optimistic but Turkey’s newfound intransigence may well be the last straw.

    I was reading some correspondence from a British artillery commander in the Korean war. The gleeful way that he counts fatalities as his measure of success (in a war where Turkey was our ally) might give Erdogan pause (but probably not).

  2. The determination of the EU (it appears) to shove Turkey into their pro-political organisation, backed by the west’s willingness to rescue people in flimsy craft and bring them to Europe rather than — as common sense might dictate — returning them safely to their port of origin hasn’t helped quell the ‘anger’ of the muslim mindset. And yes, they are angry, though one isn’t always clear about what. However it is an anger that has to have very violent objections raised. Add to this an increasingly vociferous and aggressive ‘domesticated’ muslim population in Europe and a lot of islamists nurture hope that their ways will topple the west. Certainly a booming birth-rate paid for by the west (largely initiated by taxing the native — aka white — populations, not the newcomers) adds fuel to those flames, all of which is allied with an insipid western pretend-leadership supported by an unthinking media again tends to confirm the idea we are ready and willing to fall.

    But, Mr Tim, like you I think something dark and capable still lurks in the breast of us. The law, for now, may seem to favour the muslims and illegal immigrants, and while it doesn’t help that have people who openly vote for muslim politicians without any awareness of the consequence we are not all in agreement. But while many of the non-muslim population have put up with the expansion of what is in essence and anti-Christian and in practice a decidedly anti-Jewish with no great regard for other religions the worm, as they ay, will turn.

    You would think that the muslim cause would think a little more about their image and begin to understand that ‘lone-wolf’ assaults (and I do not believe their are lone at all) merely builds resentment in the kuffir. That resentment may well one day boil over and the targets for a suddenly reinvigorated ancient Brit, Goth and Viking-type anger are going to be obvious. Personally I harbour muslims no ill will however much I dislike their religion, but would rather them practice their religion in the 57 or whatever countries they profess to be of their faith.

    Right now we are confused and with it insist on sending the sort of message that tells Turks that we want to be the mat they can wipe their feet on. We are capable of running our own world and while that capability has, perhaps, relied on Middle Eastern oil for too long it could change quickly. I would even hazard guess that a serious economic collapse would propel the First Foot of Man United Supporters to vent their explosive anger on obvious targets, and I am not necessarily referring to City fans.

    But there is one advantage the islamists have and that is an increasing muslim population in Europe. They have the bodies and while I understand our politicians have not noticed this yet, it is obvious to many they aren’t always here to make friends.

    I am too old to join any militia designed to defend what we have left, even if I was approached. I may not be around to see the outcome of this ‘war’ that the muslims continually talk about having. But there will be an outcome in time, and it won’t be happy and diverse at all. I fear for my grandchildren and even, perhaps, their children eventually. But there are a lot of ordinary people who, when you listen to them, don’t believe that there should be single mosque in the west, very much as islam has shown there are no churches in Saudi. We have seemingly forgotten the age-old principle of ‘tit for tat’ and imagine that with central heating and high-definition celeb dancing on telly we are above that sort of thing. It would be a very deluded person to think we aren’t a lot like our tribal forefathers.

  3. I have had my struggles with religion having being brought up as Roman Catholic or more culturally speaking a Christian and like most people have always tried to be a good person. But as time progressed I grew more confused as to what the Bible meant. It took a while but it dawned on me one day that no one is born with a Bible, a Koran or a Torah wrapped around their neck, it is a man that gives us these books not our Gods. I realised that religion or culture was actually an accident of birth, we are all born equal and our religious culture is based on the absolute randomness of the location of your birth. We are then told by other men in our location what doctrines are good, which are reinforced and based on what is written in their manmade books. Religion is a manmade creation, a culture of sorts that contrary to human nature, is location based, divisive at its core and intentionally designed to stifle self-realization and the truth that we are each born as the creator and we are therefore all gods in their language.

    I have also discovered that the whole Biblical foundation of Christianity is completely flawed and no doubt I could if I had the time and inclination debunk the other faiths documented basis as well.

    So it’s of no surprise to me that for the first time in history that eschatologists of all faiths are now officially in their respective messianic end times game plan. In Islamic eschatology Syria is ground zero for their end times and there are three main players in this final act that will all be present in Syria at the same time. Dajjal their Antichrist, the Prince or Iman and Jesus the son of Mary. Yes this is pure fiction alright but it is alos religious doctrine that is that ingrained that its believers will actually go to the extent of carrying it out as to fulfil their role in their scriptures.

    So, who could the players be, Erdogan of Constantinople seems the obvious choice as the Antichrist or False Prophet or maybe Putin, Assad the Iman and that just leaves us to work out who Jesus the son of Mary is. Could it be the King of Jordan or alternatively what about Putin the son of Maria?

    These religious folks are whacko and will go to any length to fulfil their prophecies and don’t worry there are plenty of connections with Trump and messianic happenings in Christendom as well.

    “Then Jesus son of Mary will descend at the white minaret to the east of Damascus. He will then catch him up at the gate of Ludd and kill him”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Masih_ad-Dajjal

  4. I think you are exactly right, Bardon, about the fact that the major religious tracts are creations of man and not some divine entity. Indeed, as much as I may believe in some sort of universal ‘grand plan’ it is fairly obvious that any sort of vision of future events would have shown that giving one sect ‘the truth’ having already told a different cult they were in possession of a conflicting version of ‘the truth’ would lead to all sorts of problems. It would even — perish the thought — cast significant doubt on the intelligence of the divine.

    In other words, if you had had an idea of what could possibly go wrong, you wouldn’t tell differing fairy tales or even porkies to dangerous loons.

  5. The them and us divide between the western tradition and Islam is that in the name of Allah, the all powerful, logic and the laws of physics are not binding upon the deity or its followers; whereas there is an assumption,we grew up with, that things should make sense, not be contradictory and subject to the laws of physics (although postmodernism, belief in the magic moneytree and the social sciences have confused this somewhat).

    Believing Erdogan is a few slices short of a full kebab, may be reassuring but fails to account for his deadly seriousness that the Caliphate will be restored, Islam will conquer or kill the unbelievers and western military, economic and scientific power be handed to the righteous. We have to be ready and willing to fight, physically and ideologically. This time Jan Sobieski may arrive too late.

  6. Cheers Watcher.

    There is one facet of catholicism that I found very useful and miss dearly in my pagan times. Provided that you confessed your sins during a confessional “hearing” the priest would readily absolve you of them and decide on what penance (how many prayers) you needed to say to be completely forgiven. It was a pretty cool cleansing process at the time and kind of allowed you to enjoy the good bits of sinning as I knew I could clear it all up later in the week.

  7. “his deadly seriousness that the Caliphate will be restored, Islam will conquer or kill the unbelievers and western military, economic and scientific power be handed to the righteous”

    Yes that does seem the encapsulate point that the False Prophet is rattling his sabre about. If Le Pen gets up in late April,ready to start knocking on the door of the French President, he will call for all French Turks and French Molsems to rise and protect themselves, this will be his first direct call to arms in Christendom a call that will have far bloodier repercussions than his recent agitation in Rotterdam which was carried out days before the Dutch election.

    What transpires in France on April 25 has the potential to be the start of the end.

  8. “But hey, perhaps the West has gone soft.”

    Not at all! Look at the mess we just made of that mostly empty airfield…

  9. Bardon: perhaps that is what we should hope for, that he should call for war before the believers overwhelm us in number, leading governments to enact limits to immigration, to religious activity especially funding and active protection of freedom of speech, freedom of conscience and equality before the law.

  10. Ljh you may be right but I doubt that the state will prevent anything bad from going down.

    Its getting pretty hard to predict how things may unfold since last weeks events in Syria. Given that Trump has now for the first time adopted an anti-Russian position there is now scope for Erdogan to betray Putin and move back to the US as well.

    In that case we are back to the previous position of a US-Turkish conflict with Russia-Syria which isn’t exactly a Crusade anymore. If that pans out there is probably no need for a South China Sea escalation either.

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