Regular commenter Watcher left the following comment under my last post on writing:
Editing, as anyone who has written anything knows, is an utter pain up the dark place. It may be having an idea is fairly easy, writing a draft is fun but editing really does separate the men from the sheep, as it were. You have to have a hard heart to edit something you have come to love. (By the way, when I was at Art College one exercise that came as a real shock to us kiddies was spending an hour drawing some plant and then being told to rub it out and start again. Naturally, we all tried to save the ‘best bits’ of the drawing. To edit, you have to be prepared to rub out the ‘best bits’ and, pooh above, that is really, really hard)
I know I’m going to struggle with this. In my professional life I write reports and when they are sent for review I take every comment and suggestion as a personal affront, believing my work to be the epitome of perfection first time around. I exaggerate, but only slightly. I really, really don’t like having my work edited.
But I have no choice: an engineer cannot check his own work and nor can a writer edit his, and I have no doubt a good editor will make my output much better. The question I have, with my having no experience, is what exactly does an editor do? Specifically, where does his/her role start and stop.
My guess is that an editor will take an objective look at the story and make suggestions with the goal of improving it in the eyes of future readers. He will look at the book length, the prose, the characters, the overall story and other elements and then advise what changes ought to be made. I would imagine they would include fleshing out a character, removing unnecessary scenes which are effectively duplicates of others, reducing the length of some sections, increasing the length of others, rewriting sections to make them more readable and to remove ambiguities, and possibly making recommendations to improve a character or storyline.
But how far do they go? Do they attempt to change the story, for example by substituting a sad ending for a happy one? Do they ask the author to drop the first person narrative and rewrite it in the third person? Would they suggest major alterations to key characters thinking readers will find them more accessible? Would they want additional scenes included to make the story more like the one they would have written were they an author instead of an editor?
And how are the conflicts between the editor and author resolved? Obviously an author must trust his editor, but how does one go about this? How do you know whether an editor is adding value or destroying your work to satisfy his own ego?
I would love to get some feedback on this, as it is obviously going to be a tough period.
Thanks for the mention, O White Sun, and editing is all the things you said, and then some. My experience with editors is that don’t necessarily — if they have sense, and as we know humans are generally somewhat short in that department — try to rewrite simply because they are a frustrated author. They do, if they are good, spot errors in continuity and naturally have a better spill chucker than available to you the writer. Many minor changes happen, well, magically.
However the word ‘stet’ in proof mark up means ‘leave it alone; this is how it is meant to be.’ Good editors will know that.
I am not sure editors necessarily want a different ending, as such. I do know if you include lame jokes they say ‘hmmm, not funny,’ and ask for revision, or deletion.
An editor once asked me to put in an extra long scene in a published short story, almost doubling its length, because she thought it had some promise but also, if I read her comments accurately, she needed to ‘bulk up’ the collection and probably had a slight shortfall in word count. There was a problem: this editor was committed to hitting a contract with, say, 300,000 words and an extra 3,000 from me and a few others would have helped.
I was told by one author that his great sci-fi story was too big for one book as the page count would, literally, break the spine (glue only holds so many pages) but not enough for a duology. Trim savagely or hit that keyboard again? He did the latter.
I also worked with one guy who, as a designer, had made living for a company that printed books that had to be — no matter how good or bad — 192 pages including cover and fly sheets (incidentally the books were printed in a former Commie outpost and the quality was, surprisingly, good). The author either trimmed his or her work or wrote more. That was the deal.
The author Dean Koontz tells the story of providing a story back when he was a tyro for a publication that printed two short stories back to back, one upside down (or both right way up in their own world, if you prefer). The editor came back to Koontz and said the companion author had over-written his half so would Koontz be a good brick and accept, at the agreed one cent a word, some cutting down by the editor to accommodate the other chap’s excess. Koontz agreed, but years later met the other who had been ‘at his back’ and learned the editor had told that writer the same sorry tale, so both Koontz and the back author each took less money.
The moral being, I suppose, it depends who you are dealing with. Dishonourable people are dishonourable in ways you can’t yet imagine.
Most stories follow a three-act approach (set-up, crisis, resolution, with a false dawn just before the final resolution) and if you don’t believe me have a look at, say, Christopher Vogler’s ‘The Writer’s Journey’ which, while aimed at screenwriting, is a great guide to how stories — not reports, Tim — flesh out. Again, a good editor will be looking for that structure. in other words boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy finds girl is fine especially if the boy finds another girl. The judgement is happiness comes in various ways, for someone and editors should know their market.
Incidentally, I had access to a long ‘confessional story’ from a woman whose sexual adventures in far-flung places were unhappy and even desperately close to being quite nasty at times and when I asked an editor about publishing it with proceeds for some vulnerable women charity (the woman involved had sadly committed suicide before she sent out her ‘memoirs’) the editor said they wouldn’t even consider it unless there was a sort of contrite epilogue of regret. As the woman involved was dead, that wasn’t going to happen and it wasn’t my place to write an apology for seeming misbehaviour.
So editors have pressures, they have views but generally they should see the flaws. But I always argue if in doubt about some work, put it away for a year and let it ‘mature’ so coming back to it with a fresh eye helps.
Here is a post that I wrote about the first sentence of my first book and the editing that went into it. You may find it useful.
https://pushingrubberdownhill.com/2015/10/12/the-first-sentence/
“is what exactly does an editor do?”
A good editor makes your work better. All other types of editor make your work their own.
I wrote a first draft of a book once, at the invitation of OUP. Oh yes.
And then I thought “diminishing returns”: I’d got almost all the pleasure out of it that I was going to get, and the remaining smidgen of pleasure would be inadequate reward for the extra work required to get it. So I dropped it.
It’s rather like research: the fun is in the doing. Writing it up is comparatively boring – it’s much more fun to go on and investigate the next topic.
Further to some of the comments above:
‘If there is any rhyme or reason to the way editing varies from one editor to another, it seems to be this: The less the editor has written under his own name, the more he wants to write under someone else’s name.’ (Thomas Sowell)
https://bondwine.com/2016/11/29/sowell-on-editors/
I agree with Watcher’s comments. Generally, what an editor does is decided by mutual agreement with the author. Some authors want little more than a check for typos, but most want criticism of the plot, characterizations, etc. It also depends on the commercial relationship. An editor who is in the employ of a publisher that paid the author a big advance has a viewpoint that differs from that of an editor working with an author who will self-publish the book. (Most books are self-published today, via Amazon, Smashwords, etc.)
An editor must definitely keep his ego in check. It does really help if the editor is also an author.
But why have just one editor? Why not pick three or four and see how far they differ with one another?
I’m writing a non-fiction book. It’s on a specialized topic but intended for layman readers, including students. So as far as editing is concerned, I have at least two concerns: the accuracy of my descriptions and explanations, and how engaging and readable they are. So I was thinking that, when I’m ready, I’ll try to get two editors – one to comment and advise on accuracy, and one to comment and advise on readability, with me having to figure out the best combination.
Adam,
Here is a post that I wrote about the first sentence of my first book and the editing that went into it. You may find it useful.
I did find it useful, thanks. Watcher has also cited the importance of a good opening sentence, followed (presumably) by a good opening passage. If you’re first draft was 140k words I’m not surprised your editor made you chop it down a bit!
Tim,
A good editor makes your work better. All other types of editor make your work their own.
That’s a good phrase, I’ll keep that in mind. I’ve certainly experienced the latter when writing articles.
dearime,
And then I thought “diminishing returns”: I’d got almost all the pleasure out of it that I was going to get, and the remaining smidgen of pleasure would be inadequate reward for the extra work required to get it. So I dropped it.
That makes sense, but for me I’m keen to see what the whole experience from idea through to publishing is like.
mike,
But why have just one editor? Why not pick three or four and see how far they differ with one another?
That’s not a bad idea. I guess it will depend on how much they charge.
Watcher,
They do, if they are good, spot errors in continuity and naturally have a better spill chucker than available to you the writer. Many minor changes happen, well, magically.
That’s what I’ll need, as a minimum.
However the word ‘stet’ in proof mark up means ‘leave it alone; this is how it is meant to be.’ Good editors will know that.
Ooh, okay. Must read more on this…
I am not sure editors necessarily want a different ending, as such. I do know if you include lame jokes they say ‘hmmm, not funny,’ and ask for revision, or deletion.
Again, fair enough.
An editor once asked me to put in an extra long scene in a published short story, almost doubling its length, because she thought it had some promise but also, if I read her comments accurately, she needed to ‘bulk up’ the collection and probably had a slight shortfall in word count. There was a problem: this editor was committed to hitting a contract with, say, 300,000 words and an extra 3,000 from me and a few others would have helped.
Yeah, I’m aiming for the 80k-90k words so length won’t be an issue.
Most stories follow a three-act approach (set-up, crisis, resolution, with a false dawn just before the final resolution)
Absolutely. Mine won’t quite follow this pattern, but will be close enough.
The judgement is happiness comes in various ways, for someone and editors should know their market.
Yeah, I’d be interested in what they say about potential market for my stuff.
Incidentally, I had access to a long ‘confessional story’ from a woman whose sexual adventures in far-flung places were unhappy and even desperately close to being quite nasty at times and when I asked an editor about publishing it with proceeds for some vulnerable women charity (the woman involved had sadly committed suicide before she sent out her ‘memoirs’) the editor said they wouldn’t even consider it unless there was a sort of contrite epilogue of regret. As the woman involved was dead, that wasn’t going to happen and it wasn’t my place to write an apology for seeming misbehaviour.
That’s pretty interesting…especially that they wanted regret, as it chimes with what I’m writing about. Do you know if the lady in question actually regretted anything?