I bring to your attention this tweet from Iowahawk and two responses, one of which is mine:
On the one hand, you have this batshit insane idea pushed by deranged feminists that unwanted attention such as catcalling, suggestive remarks, or flirting constitutes sexual harassment or even assault, and that all such interactions should be eliminated from the workplace and greater society. If that were to happen, men and women would never get together.
On the other hand, you have this idea that middle-aged men ought to be trying it on with women half their age because a tiny minority of men in highly unusual circumstances manage to do so. In this post, Chateau Heartiste quotes one of his commenters thusly:
[A father] would be delighted with his mid-teens daughter marrying a proper 30-year old man.
Uh-huh. This is a major problem with the red-pilled, manosphere, PUA blogs: the authors may have some experience with women worth sharing, but they induce in their commenters delusions no less idiotic than those of their feminist counterparts.
It is well known that women, in general, like men who are a bit older. How much older? It depends, but not that much older. 18 year old girls like 24 year old men, 25 year old girls like 30 year old men, something like that. There are some exceptions: ageing rock stars, politicians, and other high-status individuals do okay with young women; teenage hookers seem happy to accept customers of any age; there are an abundance of emotionally-scarred girls with deep-rooted daddy issues attracted to men twice their age; and occasionally you come across a genuine relationship with a big age-gap that seems normal. And there’s nothing wrong with any of this.
But that doesn’t mean the average young girl you meet in a bar or on the street is interested in a bloke miles older than them. Sure, they might be interested in a particular guy who’s much older than them, but it is highly unlikely to be you. Whereas it is true that it’s a man’s right and prerogative to try it on with any woman he fancies, the flip side of that is a man really ought to know who’s in his league and who isn’t. That some men don’t ever figure this out is why the category “creep” exists. It gets overused for sure, particularly by women, but it also applies to deeply average guys in their 30s or 40s thinking they’re in with half a chance with the teenage intern. As Iowahawk says, best wait until you’re flirted at before you make a fool of yourself and get branded a creep. I saw a lot of this on Sakhalin, middle-aged men thinking every pretty young Russian girl found them desirable, leading to some excruciating advances which the women didn’t like very much. And a lot did what Carl Gustav warns of, i.e. they interpreted a girl being nice as flirting.
Of course, most men find much younger women attractive and desirable, but this is a big step away from the idea that they should therefore hit on them. Frankly, I don’t know who the hell would want a relationship with a much younger woman anyway, except for obvious physical reasons. I know women of 23 now, and I occasionally meet 18 year olds: they come across as annoying kids. Who the hell would want to hang around them? I’ve often suspected older guys who go for naive, immature women do so because their females peers can see right through them.
There’s a caveat in here, though. The age gap ceases to matter once a woman has passed 28 or 30 or so because she’s probably mature and experienced enough to know what she’s doing. Anyone who thinks a woman of 18 or 20 is mature enough to know what she’s doing in the company of a 40 year old man probably doesn’t know many 18 year old women. Perhaps in the past this was common, but I’d be interested to get the perspective from the women on what their marriages were like. The general rule of thumb, which I think is sensible, is the “half age plus seven” rule, e.g. 27 is the approximate lower limit for a 40 year old man, 22 for a 30 year old.
Exceptions abound in all of this of course, and I’m writing this post mainly to make the point that, while we all roll our eyes at feminists complaining about the natural attraction women have to older, powerful men the other side of the internet is filled with bro’d-up wannabe-alphas thinking young women are just waiting to be “gamed” by much older men. We should roll our eyes at them, too. Knowing your market and avoiding the creep label ought to be top priorities of any man entering middle-age with an intention of dating women.