Trump and Sexual Assault

Reluctant as I am to be defending Donald Trump on this point but it keeps coming up. Take a random example:

Look at these men. Look at them. Gathered around the most powerful man in the world – a man who has openly bragged of sexual assault, who refers to a vulva as a woman’s “wherever” – as he signs away the reproductive rights of women in developing countries.

I assume the author is referring to Trump’s “grap ’em by the pussy” remark when she says he has openly bragged of sexual assault. This is what he actually said:

Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

Bush: Whatever you want.

Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.

The key point here is “when you’re a star, they let you do it”. I’m not going to defend what Trump said or dismiss it as locker-room talk, but he is making the point that when you’re a star you can do anything, they let you do it. This may be distasteful but it appears to be true, which I suspect is why so many women have gotten upset about it. I cannot condone the actions of somebody behaving in this way, and that is also the case with Trump: he was speaking like a dick and boasting of acting like a dick.

But he was not bragging of sexual assault: it would be sexual assault if the pussy grabbing was not consensual, but he clearly says “they let you do it”. He’s not saying he grabs their pussy whether they like it or not, which would be sexual assault in the case of the latter. Of course such behaviour looks like a quick way to find yourself fending off accusations of sexual assault and I understand Trump has done so in the past, but what he describes is by definition consensual.

This may seem like nitpicking on my part, but accuracy is important in these matters. A lot of women seem to have marched on DC on the basis of something that simply isn’t true, and they continue to repeat it. It’s yet another reason why they are not being taken seriously enough to mount any sort of opposition to his Presidency.

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26 thoughts on “Trump and Sexual Assault

  1. Bang on the money, yet again.

    I don’t like it but I have just had a meeting where the other party had a go at Trump. He was wrong (in the same way) on every count.

    I preface my ‘defence’ with I don’t think I could be his friend, and I don’t believe in his trade policies, but…

    Among my lefty friends the conviction is that all the ‘dirt’ on his companies will be out by the summer and he will resign or face impeachment. This, based on what?

  2. I suspect Trump doesn’t need, unlike the sainted Obama, the media to spring to his defence (or more, likely, in the stories about “Bathhouse Barry” simply ignore them). He will carry on doing what he wants.

    The wish for Trump to fail is strong, as is the desire by some for him to be impeached. Maybe it will happen, maybe not. We shall see. But the voices raised against Trump while loud aren’t everyone’s voice, and though he may have been overwhelmed once by ladies begging to be grabbed by the pussy he may not be a whole lot different to all sorts of men with power and money. ‘Twas always thus and I am faintly surprised that anyone thinks that we must only have saints in charge these days.

    But whatever the truth about Trump, chances are the truth about some of his Oval Office predecessors will be a whole lot more interesting when the dam of silence finally breaks.

  3. There is a semantic gap between “letting someone do something to you” and “wanting someone to do something to you”. I’d feel pretty sick if Britain ended up with a Prime Minister who came out with a dickish statement like that.

    Of course there is also a difference between “letting someone do something” and “being forced into something” … but given the power gap between Trump and his purported targets, there is some blurring of those lines. I also think that when someone makes such a dick of himself (even in a private, off-the-cuff brag), he pretty much forfeits any moral right to have his words interpreted in the more generous manner. Doubly so if he is or becomes a politician.

  4. The women/girls “let them do it” by your reasoning would suggest Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, Max Clifford, were all allowed to do it. They were all stars in their day. .

    There is also a whole debate around the concept of “they let you do it” and people in a position of power.

    So to dismiss the sexual assault aspect of it because he’s a star seems premature especially as a quick google search demonstrates a number of women who have come forward to claim they have had unwarranted sexual contact with him. Only one of them needs to be true to make some aspect of his bragging to be about sexual assault.

    Regardless of if his bragging does include an aspect of sexual assualt or not. If i was a woman who’s president saw and viewed women in such a way i’d want to protest as well. Given how contentious and partisan women’s health issues are in the USA

  5. Has anybody credibly accused Trump of actually doing this?

    My take has always been that “grab ’em by the pussy” was a ludicrously exaggerated example of the type of things women “let you do” “when you’re a star”, i.e. he was joking.

    Perhaps I’m giving him too much credit; but if I can make it through life without actually doing the horrible things I’ve said about women, then why not him?

  6. Matthew

    So far there are no credible accusations. They are escraping the barrel trying to find someone.

    When there are and they seems real, I will accept them. I am not defending Trump. I am defending his innocence until proven guilty.

    Billy Cliton on the other hand has multiple fairly credible accusations laid at his door and yet is a hero. His behaviour with Monica L. was truly abusive. She was even asked to wait once while he finished off with an earlier date (who presumably didn’t get a spunk-stained dress out of it).

    They have been out for Trump (both sides) since he mooted himself for Presi. And they have nothing yet. He is no saint but..

  7. The women/girls “let them do it” by your reasoning would suggest Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, Max Clifford, were all allowed to do it.

    Absolutely not: they were charged with sexually assaulting minors who, by definition, cannot consent.

  8. I also think that when someone makes such a dick of himself (even in a private, off-the-cuff brag), he pretty much forfeits any moral right to have his words interpreted in the more generous manner. Doubly so if he is or becomes a politician.

    Agreed. But I still think it is factually incorrect to say that he “openly bragged of sexual assault”, and this is important if it is a cornerstone of an argument.

  9. What I get with Trump is a bad boy who has pulled himself together from necessity and the future might just see a different thing emerge. I’ve seen it before with people who turn out to do some good – there were never any signs before of it.

  10. Y’all haven’t seen the full video then? Where it shows Trump & Bush getting off the bus after that conversation & being met by the female reporter they were talking about?

    She had her hands all over them (esp Trump) like as if she was Helen Keller. Then she kissed Trump.

    I could go on, but y’all get the picture.

  11. What Trump said seems to be a combination of ‘Aren’t groupies sluts?’, ‘I am a star, I am’, and general sexual bragging. Is it unfair of him to assume that young women in show biz are often groupies? Does he assume it, or does he assert it, based on experience?

    Anyway, what does it matter? His opponent has spent her life defending Slick Willie from accusations of sexual assault and rape. She behaved despicably as a lawyer while defending a rapist, and boasted about it afterwards.

    For most adults among the electorate, the choice was Trump or Hellary. I imagine that just enough felt as I did, to wit “hold your nose and vote for Trump”.

    Because if the vote had gone the other way the office would now be held by a hard-drinking invalid trying to provoke war with Russia.

  12. I really fail to see what all the fuss is about. Two studs talking about chicks. Big deal.
    What I do find disturbing is the way Bush seems to be egging him on, tapes him without his knowledge and then produces it twelve years later. That bit stinks.

  13. Compare the reaction to this with the same people’s defence of Roman Polanski, or even Bill Clinton.

    It’s always tactical.

  14. I find myself pretty uninterested in politicians sex lives. I wouldn’t have cared less if Cameron held drug and rent boy weekends at Chequers as long as he was giving the EU commie bastards a good kicking Monday to Friday.

  15. Interesting how accustomed we’ve become to this idea that leaders must be likeable every day sorts of people.

    The boss is paid to do things- hopefully things with a net benefit. Whether they are a pleasant human being or not seems immaterial.

    Indeed the multiple checks and balances in any democracy seem to exist mainly to clamp down on any asshole behaviour (e.g. Nixon getting drunk and wanting to nuke North Korea)

  16. “getting drunk and wanting to nuke North Korea”: but would anyone have dared to stop Hellary doing that? She’d have had them shot when she sobered up.

  17. The whole women’s march thing is histrionic bullshit. Saying that someone would ‘let’ you do something to them is not an admission of anything. It’s braggadocio, nothing more. Showbiz especially is full of those who exaggerate ‘normal’ social grooming behaviour into blatant sexual touching. I’ve worked security / waiting at two functions and watched these people at ‘work’. Especially the women. They’d fuck a frog if it stopped hopping long enough.

    From my schooldays days (5th and 6th form, Grades 11, 12 & 13), I can remember at least two girls in the year below us in each specific year, whose morals were so loose it was a wonder they didn’t fall off. Even the ugliest drummer in a local band I ever helped shift kit for got propositioned. And these girls were often fourteen or fifteen year olds dressed up to look like they were seventeen or eighteen. The only way you’d know is if they brought their birth certificate. Even then under age kids regularly use false ID to get into pubs and clubs.

    Who was that thirteen year old girl for example who shacked up with Rolling Stones guitarist Bill Wyman? Or how about the under age girl who was sodomised willingly by Roman Polanski? The ones given willingly by parents to predatory studio staff just so they can get a career in movies?

    There are no innocents in showbiz, only willing supplicants.

  18. I must say that I thought Trumps comments were most probably true, pretty tame and nothing to write home about. The prolific shaggers that I know swear by this strategy although they go a step further on initial contact and openly talk about it. They insist that the more of an upper hand you take on initial contact the more they succumb to your charm as this is what most women desire deep down inside.

  19. Or how about the under age girl who was sodomised willingly by Roman Polanski?

    I assume you’re not talking about the one he drugged beforehand?

  20. And the one you kiss who doesn’t ‘let you do it’, after you’ve ‘automatically’ ‘just done it’ or the one who lets you do it but only because you’re in a position of power, a star, and is worried she won’t be believed (see comments above)? Both sexual assault. If you can’t resist automatically kissing someone it doesn’t imply there’s much consideration for consent.

  21. And the one you kiss who doesn’t ‘let you do it’, after you’ve ‘automatically’ ‘just done it’ or the one who lets you do it but only because you’re in a position of power, a star, and is worried she won’t be believed (see comments above)? Both sexual assault.

    Agreed, if she “doesn’t let you do it” then it is sexual assault. If she does, then it isn’t.

    If you can’t resist automatically kissing someone it doesn’t imply there’s much consideration for consent.

    I imagine people like Trump are pretty savvy at sussing out the situation where the woman will consent. Or maybe not, in which case they are engaging in sexual assault. Although the specifics of the situation are important. How many of us on here have tried to kiss a girl, misread the signals, and she’s pulled away? Most of us, I bet. Of course, we don’t try to grab their pussy but we’ve all fucked up the signals when it comes to kissing.

  22. I assume you’re not talking about the one he drugged beforehand?

    My guess is there was a mixture of drugs and willingness, but that is beside the point: the age of consent exists to ensure adults don’t ever think it is okay to sodomize 13 year old girls, whether they are willing or not.

  23. So what were saying here is that is okay for any old boiler to make a complaint to the police that she didn’t willingly receive a kiss from you and and that this is called sexual assault and is a crime.

  24. So what were saying here is that is okay for any old boiler to make a complaint to the police that she didn’t willingly receive a kiss from you and and that this is called sexual assault and is a crime.

    I’m not saying that, but a lot of lunatic feminists are. Grabbing a woman’s pussy is asking for sexual assault charges to be filed, but trying to kiss somebody? Depends on the circumstances, but there is a reason why it’s called “stealing a kiss”. Context, circumstances, matter.

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