FGM and Forced Marriage in Britain

Yesterday I received a useful demonstration of how much trouble Britain is in if things don’t change soon. It started with this:

With the inevitable exception of some freak outlier cases, FGM is practiced by two groups of people:

1. Certain Muslim cultures (but not all).

2. Certain non-Muslim African cultures (but not all).

Outside of those, FGM doesn’t happen. Insofar as forced marriage is concerned, this can be found among Muslim and non-Muslim cultures in the Middle East and Asia. Does it happen in non-Muslim Africa? I don’t know, but one thing is certain: neither FGM or forced marriage is native to British culture, and both are present in Britain purely because immigrants have brought the practices with them. The reason this special protocol has been established in Birmingham is because of the number of people living in that city from cultures which practice FGM and forced marriages (although whether male chaperones allow girls to take mobile phones to the toilet at the airport is doubtful, doubly so now they know this system is in place).

But of course, nobody wants to actually say who is committing these barbaric acts, it’s easier to pretend everyone does it:

The problem of FGM and forced marriage is worldwide only insofar as the cultures which practice them have spread beyond their geographical homelands. This is the equivalent of saying Turkish is a worldwide language on the basis that no matter which city you’re in, there’s likely someone who speaks it. It’s nonsense of course, as is the claim that FGM and forced marriages are a worldwide problem, but those who claim to be trying to solve it want to pretend otherwise:

Here’s what’s happening. Either sincerely or in order to virtue-signal, young women have taken to Twitter and possibly other platforms to discuss and campaign against FGM and forced marriages. However, they’re either unwilling or unable to bring themselves to admit who is actually doing it, so they simply pretend everyone does – hence the moronic claim “cultures not yet identified” might be mutilating the genitalia of young girls. One person even linked to a Guardian article citing a single instance of it happening to a white American girl in 1947, as if that was relevant to Birmingham in 2018. Alas, things didn’t get any better from there as more millennial feminists joined in:

This sounds more like someone who wants to be seen talking about the problem than someone interested in solving it. Virtue-signalling, in other words.

Then “the problem” is widened by someone else to include spousal abuse, presumably to give the “worldwide” claim stronger legs:

Every single culture suffers from issues involving child sacrifice, devil worship, and increasing housing costs too.

I wonder how many places Madelaine Hanson has lived in, being 22 years old? Not many, judging by this:

Forced marriage in Russia? I know some Caucasian peoples practice it, but ethnic Russians on a widespread basis? In all my time in Russia and speaking to Russians I never heard of a single instance of a woman being forced into a marriage, even among the Sakhalin Koreans who were subject to more pressure than most. This is simply nonsense, and although we knew this already, it tells us that brainless airheads are inserting themselves into matters such as FGM and force marriage. Consider this:

She’s a 22 year old feminist writer and comedian from north London, almost certainly middle class. What actual, tangible help do you think she’s provided to women facing FGM or forced marriage? Do you think she’s even met one face to face?

The most charitable thing which can be said about these empty-headed young women is they mean well, but I suspect that might be too generous. The less charitable version is they’ve adopted FGM and forced marriage as a vehicle for advancing their western feminist ambitions, haranguing ordinary men while making sure they say nothing which may identify the backgrounds of the actual perpetrators. Not content with a wall of silence over Rotherham, British feminists are determined to be wilfully blind on these issues too:

So those who’ve taken the most interest in protocols at Birmingham airport to prevent women being trafficked for FGM and forced marriage are Muslim women? How dense do you have to be to tweet that while claiming it’s widespread across all cultures?

And just when I thought things couldn’t get any worse, Plod shows up:

No, it’s specific to certain cultures which are not native to Britain, hence my incredulity that such measures are required. It’s worth reminding ourselves that whenever we see blithering idiocy from our police or government, there are far too many people who endorse it. The reason why there has been only a single, solitary prosecution for FGM in the UK is the authorities and campaigners don’t actually want to tackle the problem, and are only using the issue for their own ends. Ultimately, the failures of Rotherham and whatever the hell is going on as regards FGM and forced marriages lie with the British people.

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40 thoughts on “FGM and Forced Marriage in Britain

  1. You are a bad person for disagreeing with them. They know you are bad because you disagreed with them, and as they are good you must be bad.

  2. If only we could somehow get away from all these young, hysterical, over-emotional women (and I am a woman btw)

    there is clearly some kind of derangement taking place amongst young people today…not sure whether this due to poor diets, messed-up hormones, Internet, over-education, molly-cuddling parents. In any case, this generation is going to be an exception, reality will hit us all pretty fast quite soon I’m sure, and it will go back to normal. The human inclination for survival will not tolerate them.

  3. Damn. Was that a veiled warning to shut up or be prosecuted for hate speech? Am I reading too much into it?

  4. “they’re either unwilling or unable to bring themselves to admit who is actually doing it, so they simply pretend everyone does”

    They rarely go in for this sort of obfuscation when condemning sexual assault, domestic violence, and sexist language. They are usually keen on naming a specific group then.

  5. Jerry C:

    “Was that a veiled warning to shut up or be prosecuted for hate speech? Am I reading too much into it?”

    I would be interested in reading Tim’s response and any subsequent comments from them. The police getting involved what is essentially a debate is extremely worrying. They are too stupid to understand the issues, and the vast majority of the population think we pay them to do something very different. I wonder how long it will be before some bit of software allows them to patrol blogs like this one, so they can pop up and issue a few well-chosen words of “advice”, and get people to move along…

  6. “The less charitable version is they’ve adopted FGM and forced marriage as a vehicle for advancing their western feminist ambitions, haranguing ordinary men while making sure they say nothing which may identify the backgrounds of the actual perpetrators. Not content with a wall of silence over Rotherham, British feminists are determined to be wilfully blind on these issues too:”

    I’ll go with that one.

    Everyone knows that if they go near mentioning exactly where the problem is, they’ll be in trouble. Their fakecharity money and cooperation from the rest of the establishment will instantly dry up.

    And the problem is that’s the only answer: stop people coming here from those countries.It’s clearly a crime that’s impossible to stop by any sorts of checks or reporting. The only two honest answers are that you accept it, or you stop people coming here. Pouring money into it doesn’t work and it’s frankly insulting that there’s things like welsh language versions of guides, like Morag in Pontypool is doing this.

  7. So Plod have managed one prosecution for FGM even though 170,000 women are living with it day by day? And that is taking the issue seriously? I’d hate to imagine the clean up rate if they weren’t taking it so seriously.

    I’m sure they’ll be quick to blame a lack of stop and search powers for the frankly pathetic effort.

  8. So if FGM is truly a “global” problem, and 170,000 women are living with it every day, why has there only been one prosecution?

    Unless of course it’s like the Rotherham case, and it’s really not a global issue after all, but a cultural one, and it’s the Culture Which Must Not Be Named that’s predominately doing it.

    If it were truly a “global” phenomenon, statistically there would have to be a number greater than one within the different Christians of Pallor groups guilty of it, and you KNOW the powers that be would be gloating all over the prosecutions of every last one.

  9. Nature is resilient but often crudely so. A fractured limb will heal by itself, but without straightening and splinting, will heal incorrectly, leaving its owner crippled (fractured limbs not treated properly must be re-broken).
    Like the broken limb, this problem is self-correcting—but left to itself it will not correct optimally.
    ‘Mohammed’, in its various spellings, first became the most popular boy’s name in England & Wales in 2009, dropped to second place in 2010 but returned to first place in 2011 where it remains, annually increasing its lead. So, one way or another, this problem will correct itself. On our current course, Madelaine will end her life in a burqa, and as this UMI predicts, her ‘daughter will marry a bearded man’.
    It is our choice whether the problem is allowed to correct itself, leaving us an imperfectly healed and crippled society, or whether measures are taken to rectify the problem correctly, leaving our descendants a civilisation that will eventually take them to Mars and beyond.

    What Tim’s post describes is more of a symptom rather than the disease itself. And the disease is not Islam, as a comment originating from /pol/ well illustrates:
    Muslims are like the common cold. Easy to defeat, look at the Gulf War or the British occupation of Arab countries in WW2. Leftism is AIDS and ruins your immune systems, so even a cold can kill you.
    This is demonstrated by the film Captain Phillips (2013, s. Tom Hanks)—good film, and true story with the events depicted being substantively accurate. Here we have a massive container ship, an engineering marvel and example of Western Civilisation’s ability to master nature—brought low, captured, by four—4—Somali ‘pirates’ with their arses hanging out their trousers on board a small skiff. A couple of ‘good ol’ boys’ with hunting rifles could have resolved the issue—a single .50 cal would have sorted it with ease.
    As Shakespeare wrote: ‘The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves’ (Julius Cæsar 1.2.140). Western Civilisation—no country excepted—has become soft: it elevates weakness (the cult of victimhood) and debauchery over strength and virtue; and we lack the courage to take the necessary hard decisions. Islam (or other terrorism—as Gerry said, ‘They haven’t gone away, you know’) is not nearly the problem that our own various Left-inspired weaknesses are.
    But remove the SJW, and the kebab will be removed in short order.

  10. I don’t care what these people do and I despise the airheads who use them as props in their virtue signalling.

  11. Well done for arguing with these fuckers and for retaining your cool Tim.

    The only thing that would tempt me to join Twatter is the prospect of sticking it to Plod, although as I’ve think you’ve said, they wet their pants and block rather than argue.

  12. It’s nice to know that Essex Police have time to monitor every female in Essex for fgm and to verify that no married woman was forced.
    May I query how many cases they have solved?
    Perhaps if they examined their records they might find a way to target their enquiries, this freeing up some resource to deal with killings, woundings and thefts in which areas they seem to be struggling.
    Perhaps the young ladies on your Twitter feed are upset because plod has monitored neither their genitals nor those of their mates. Perhaps the relevant force could remedy that.
    They are obviously scared that their parents will marry them off against their will. If they haven’t already they need to leave their Parents now, ever if it means living in a hostel. And leave a note explaining why.

  13. To be fair, forced marriage is a systemic problem in the Russian North Caucasus, especially in the rural highlands of Chechnya and Dagestan. These villages and small towns aren’t ethnically Russian and most are Muslim but you can’t write them off as “not really Russian.”

  14. Does Essex Plod spend all day surfing the internet?

    Or were you denounced, Tim?

    M’learned friends can give chapter and verse but IIRC it’s a common law right to know the ID of your accuser.

    I suggest a FOI request while the issue is still warm.

  15. Re. Essex Plodscum’s post, FGM is not a ” … world wide issue …” If it were, white, non-muslim people would be doing it – and they would be vigorously prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, which is clearly not happening right now.

  16. “this is a world wide issue we are working hard at trying to eradicate at all ports”

    Isn’t this kind of telling? Forced marriages and FGM do not occur at ports. What exactly is the point of plod’s attempt to ‘eradicate’ it in places it has never happened?

    Perhaps this ‘worldwide’ problem limited to people on their way to a very small number of ‘ports’

  17. It’s nice to know that Plod suffers from no manpower, no scratch that make it personpower shortage. They have sufficient officers that some can sit around tweeting in between picking their noses.

  18. Essex Police couldn’t find their own backsides with both hands and a torch. So I doubt you have to worry about a knock on the door!

  19. Sounds like its a good time for me to go back to old blighty, round up a couple of me old mates, get organised and blow a few safes. Do they still have dog racing, that’s always a good cover as to why you were in such and such a town and have a decent wad on you when and if you get lifted. Mind you we will be very careful and won’t be tweeting about it either.

  20. JuliaM, correction: They couldn’t find their arses with both hands and the latest edition of Gray’s Anatomy.

  21. Am I reading too much into it?

    I think you are: I reckon it was more a case of Plod surfing Twitter looking for opportunities to virtue-signal than someone giving me a warning.

  22. To be fair, forced marriage is a systemic problem in the Russian North Caucasus, especially in the rural highlands of Chechnya and Dagestan.

    Which is why I said “I know some Caucasian peoples practice it…”

    These villages and small towns aren’t ethnically Russian and most are Muslim but you can’t write them off as “not really Russian.”

    Indeed, but if you want a sensible discussion on forced marriage in Russia, let alone attempt to solve the problem, you have no choice but to acknowledge the practice is restricted to certain, specific minority cultures in Russia and is not widespread among the majority population.

  23. Lord, Tim, the patience you have. I don’t know how you do it, I really don’t.

    It’s good training for dealing with modern corporate managers. 🙂

  24. This is highly disingenuous, too:

    She’s young, but she’s already learned the politician and corporate manager’s trick of answering a question which hasn’t been asked in order to avoid answering the one which has.

  25. Essex Police couldn’t find their own backsides with both hands and a torch.

    Then you won’t be surprised to know the URL they posted was wrong and led to what is probably a phishing site.

  26. Normally this kind of madness would indeed correct itself in time but the left have engineered a strategy to prevent that correction from ever taking place, that of importing a new population for whom “normal” isn’t western values.

  27. “I reckon it was more a case of Plod surfing Twitter looking for opportunities to virtue-signal than someone giving me a warning.”

    I’m not so sure. If you’d decided to start an argument on the matter with them I bet your card would soon have been marked, and they know that you know that, so its a win win for them, they get to show their SJW credentials to the world, plus send you a very clear message (but in a plausibly deniable way) – watch out we know who you are. Just showing up on the thread is enough to close it down.

  28. Scorched Earth makes some sound points, and as Tim has said before, GB is no longer a serious country or it would be able to deal effectively with this kind of absurdity.

    Scorched Earth mentioned the Tom Hanks film ‘Captain Philips’ about the hijacking of a ship by Somalis. Unsurprisingly, the Chinese would have a somewhat different take on how to deal with such scum. Exactly such a pirate scenario opens last year’s film “Wolf Warrior 2” and the ramboesque Chinese hero dispatches the pirates ‘vigorously’ shall we say. This trailer for the film includes a glimpse of that scene:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkqGiPB2D8M&vl=en

    GB needs to get serious again.

  29. Scorched Earth mentioned the Tom Hanks film ‘Captain Philips’ about the hijacking of a ship by Somalis.

    A friend of mine used to ship out on a merchant marine vessel. He told us a story about how, after having been menaced a couple of times by Somali pirates, the captain took preventative measures. Once the ship was outside the 25 mile limit, it was met by a small boat which transferred a crate of cheap AK-47 knockoffs, and the crew were encouraged to practice firing them off the side of the boat in their free time. Next time they were menaced, a few rounds downrange and the pirates scarpered. The guns were apparently chucked overboard before returning to more civilized ports.

  30. They have womens’ toilets at Birmingham airport?

    Is that even allowed these days?

  31. @Tim

    At one point I did read the academic research on which the “x thousand people affected in the UK by FGM” figures are based.

    And they’re calculated on exactly the basis you would have expected – subdividing up different cultures which practise FGM (pretty much what you said – it is largely certain Muslim cultures, and certain African cultures including some non-Muslim groups), using estimates of the rates of FGM within those cultures, and then trying to establish how many people within the UK come from those groups. The subdivision can be quite tricky, for example prevalence might differ between Kurdish and Arab cultures in Iraq, or between different tribal/social groups in Ethiopia, but moreover the rates of migration to Britain of different groups from those countries may not be in proportion to their prevalence in the population there.

    So yes, this is actually all officially acknowledged, just not something that’s trotted out in public often. And to be fair, there are certainly knuckleheads and racists who’d use such facts to bash their dispreferred minority of the moment, and there are people from those communities who hate being stereotyped over it. I know plenty of Asian women who are sick to the teeth of explaining that they aren’t going to get married to some stranger just cos their family has picked one out for them … but on the flip side I know British Pakistanis who were marriage-matched to their cousins overseas, and an independence-seeking lady who is fed up with the pressure that her family puts on her to let them find a man for her; as so often with stereotypes, the kicker is how likely it is to be true.

    Is it a global problem? Well yes, because populations have globalised. There are surprisingly large Somali and West African populations living in India and Sri Lanka, for example. There is a very big Pakistani community in Norway so the possibility of someone being sent off for a forced marriage to a relative in Oslo is actually non-negligible. Odds are that the relative isn’t called Sven. But I’m not sure that matters from the point of view of whether having practical counter-measures in place is a good thing.

    There is a stereotype in Britain that it’s South Asians being sent off for forced marriages, but it certainly can affect Arabs, Somalis, Kurds, Africans, Romanies, allegedly Irish travellers too … several of those groups would either pass as or self-define as “white”. If stereotypes get in the way – for example, because someone doesn’t realise that support services apply to their group, not just South Asians, or because an onlooker refuses to believe someone can be being sent off for forced marriage because they look “too white” – then there’s a potential harm there.

    In terms of how resources are managed and directed, certain groups are clearly statistically a higher risk and need to be given a higher priority. I suspect this is what is being done, and as I said the FGM research is clearly oriented in this way. But it may make sense to do so quietly, to avoid allegations that law enforcement are “targeting” communities unfairly or perpetuating stereotypes, while making the public-facing work appear more “inclusive” – particularly making information available about support services, so that atypical victims realise they still have access to them. (So for example, an inner city school with a high proportion of Asian girls attending may be far more likely to get selected for presentations/leaflets, but it can still make sense not to present it as an Asian-only issue to the pupils because there may be other at-risk groups there too.)

    The end result is something that may appear pretty incongruent and disingenuous to the majority of us, but may still be logically coherent. Similarly, I am led to believe that the police are far more open about e.g. the common ethnic/national origins of certain organised crime groups behind closed doors than in their public statements.

  32. MBE,

    I’m afraid you’re more charitable than I am. Whereas I don’t doubt knowing which families are carrying out FGM in any given city, I don’t believe that’s why there has only been one prosecution in Britain to date. Rather, I think the police know exactly who is doing it and it’s being done openly and brazenly, but they are too scared of being called racists to do anything about it. If they’re not going to stop rape Muslim gangs in Rotherham through fear of being called racist, and come down on heavily on anyone who draws attention to it, they’ll have no qualms about ignoring FGM in order not to deflect from the narrative.

    What they will do, however, is go after the soft targets. I wish I’d kept a copy of this, but about a decade ago a Japanese woman wrote a very harshly-worded column one of the broadsheets about how she’d been turned down for a visa to enter the UK for the purposes of marriage. She’d been a student in Cambridge where she’d met her (British) boyfriend, and had since graduated and returned to Japan. Shortly afterwards (I think it was less than a year) she tried to come back to marry him. However, the home office asked for a raft of documentation before denying her entry on the suspicion she was a victim of an attempted forced marriage.

    It’s not difficult to see what had happened. The Home Office was clamping down on “Asians” subjecting women to forced marriages but didn’t want to tackle the actual problem, because then they’d be accused of racism. So instead they clobber some complete innocent who falls under the over-broad category of “Asian”, in order to keep their jobs and claim “something is being done”.

  33. @Tim N

    If accurate, the Japanese example is a good one – though I wouldn’t want to rule out it being just a paperwork snarl-up due to an inflexible bureaucracy. There are lots of hoops put in people’s way over marriage visas, and some of them have to be jumped through due to the strategy for clamping down on forced marriage. But if the frontline officer concerned genuinely believed all groups all over the world are equally at risk from the issue (as your plodtweeter seemed to be trying to imply), or that Japanese were in the same risk-group as South Asians, then s/he was a nitwit. And moreover, not in line with what the people who design national strategies actually know – though such a divergence down the chain of command doesn’t sound all that unlikely.

    As for FGM, they might “know” who is doing it, at least in the sense of knowing which groups are at risk. But do they know know? Enough that they can turn up at the door, make an arrest on suspicion or demand the daughter is subjected to a health-check? Purely on the basis of someone’s country of birth, or parents’ country of birth? Against that, the number of prosecutions is so low in comparison to the quoted figures that it does suggest they’re either treading too carefully or not bothering at all. (I have some technical doubts about the figures – I’m fairly certain their calculation method tends to inflate the problem, and moreover few researchers would seek to understate the issue they’re getting grants to work on. But they’re so large that even if you cut some zeros off the end, the prosecution rate is still anaemic.)

    For people who don’t believe the government should be poking their noses into their daily family business, FGM is a tricky issue. Should we have an expert Government Vagina Inspection Service pay six-monthly visits to all our little girls? Or should all families first have to fill in the forms for the Government FGM Risk Assessment Board (heritage being a risk factor, you’ll surely need to fish out at least your grandparents’ birth certificates to prove they were not born in a high-risk location; but since many migrant communities are past their 4th generation perhaps your great-grandparents too) and then only those designated high-risk get the six-monthly Expert Inspector visits, with medium-risk girls governmentally inspected perhaps three times in their lifetimes and the low-risk ones getting off free? I have no doubt that a strong government that was 100% committed to the task of abolishing FGM could largely achieve that goal, but not to do so in a way that is liberal (in the traditional sense) and unintrusive. There are other crimes that could be largely stamped out if we lived in a police state and we don’t consider that worth the cost either.

    Ultimately these traditions are going to be curtailed by cultural integration, and the adoption of largely western norms and values by at least the younger generations of high-risk communities. There is surely a role for public policy here, but it’s worth considering just how far it goes. Should there be incentives in place to learn English (or Welsh or Gaelic but 99%+ it’s gonna be English)? Free English lessons for migrants? Or the reverse, some kind of penalty (to benefits or immigration status?) if you haven’t passed a certain level of English after a certain period of time? Should it be a policy objective to cut down on marriage to people overseas? (It seems to be; not just the bureaucracy in obtaining a marriage visa but also restrictions on low-income people to bring a spouse here. Note that there is a marriage market issue here, in that a British spouse with visa possibilities is extra-attractive to their community overseas – you can therefore marry “out of your league” over there compared to if you stay local. In turn this leads to families which are 3rd or 4th generation one side of the family, but 1st generation on the other – constantly replenished from the traditional pool, and a brake on integration.) A policy objective to reduce cousin marriage? (For cousins overseas this is partially covered by the previous point.) A numerical target to raise the inter-marriage rate between communities? (Perhaps government shouldn’t be sticking their noses into our love-lives but inter-marriage seems a good way to absorb new populations while defusing potential communal strife in the long run.) You can’t tell a free citizen where to live, but should asylum seekers – and this particularly affects the Somali community, who largely didn’t get here on the high-skilled work visas – be dispersed away from major urban areas in an effort to encourage/force them to integrate? (Or does removing them from their community support structure actually make integration harder?) I could go on.

    I don’t know what the answers are, but I think there are some pertinent questions in there that it’s becoming harder to have meaningful discussion of the parameters for. I am happy to agree that the “something that is being done because we’ve got to (be seen to) do something” is often woefully ineffective. Setting a system of practical measures you can take if you’re at risk and at the airport, and educating people about their availability, though, is actually pretty sensible. Sad that it’s needed but I’d rather it be there than not. I’d like a more robust attitude to investigating and prosecuting that doesn’t let race form a barrier to protecting the vulnerable. (At the same time I’d admit there’s evidence the justice system shows racial bias, which needs to change. But arguably, letting FGM go uninvestigated or unpunished is actually a form of bias against vulnerable racial groups, because that is where the victims come from!) And I do think cultural change is largely organic, but the direction or pace of change can certainly be affected by government policy. The fact that FGM is an issue in the UK today at all is a direct consequence of historic immigration policy, after all. Reversing a culture that values FGM requires a further change. What, if anything, can the government do to promote that? Putting the fear of being caught by the police into those communities hardly seems likely to succeed at the current rate. But any other nettles seem to remain resolutely ungrasped.

  34. “”… What, if anything, can the government do to promote that? ….”””

    Huh, well, one possible solution is to admit that Hitler was right after all and ethnically pure State is the only way to live normally.

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